Mandrake-Installation
From Grokdoc
==Usability== (this is what this site is really about)
Contents |
A software company (linux newbies, technically competent) tries installing Linux
Last week I wrote about the search for a suitable Linux distribution. (see background in Which_Distribution#Background) To recap: we were left with the impression that the availability of free distributions is mostly a myth. Of three distributions that we wanted to "try before we buy", we were only able to successfully download one. Linux distributors should either ensure that their free downloads really work, or else they should be honest enough to say "we charge for our distribution".
In any case, I was able to download Mandrake version 10.0, and burned the three ISO images onto CDs. It was with some trepidation that I began the first Linux installation. In the following text, I'll mark particularly important points with (*).
Herewith the second part of my tale...
Starting the installation
The Mandrake installation CD booted up, and asked us what language we wanted to use. We are in Switzerland, but the internal company language is English, so I was very pleased to see that I could choose multiple languages - in our case, English and German. I hope that this means I can later change the language of the user interface, read documentation in both languages, etc, etc. This will be important to us later, if we are to port products to Linux.
We accepted the license agreement and went on to the following questions. Only after making a mistake and hitting "next" a bit too fast did I realize that there is no "back" button (*). To fix my mistake, I had to turn the machine off and restart the installation.
Disk partitioning
This is the step where I had the biggest problems. I hope that some Mandrake representative will read this!
First, I was frankly shocked at the default action (*) on the disk partitioning window - "erase disk". A wee bit dangerous!
In any case, the disk is already partitioned, so I want a different option. The Help refers to a wizard, but there is no button to start a wizard (*). So time to do it the hard way...
The disk has three partitions suitable for an OS. One 40GB contains windows, the other two are both NTFS formatted 20GB - one empty (for Linux) and one containing various stuff. I couldn't remember the order of these last two on the disk, and the partitioning screen gave me no hints. The partitions have names (from PartitionMagic), and one contains a lot of data, but none of this was visible (*) - I couldn't tell which was which. So...turn the machine off, boot Windows, look, and restart the installation...
I then clicked on the empty partition and selected "mount". When I tried to go farther, I received the message that I must click "mount point" and enter the setting "/". This is all a bit mysterious - what does it mean (*)? And why wasn't it done automatically? But, fine, I'll do it. The "Mount Point" button is disabled - the only thing I can do is "Unmount". Only - that doesn't work (*). You guessed it: turn the machine off, restart the installation process...
When I'm back to the partitioning screen, I set the mount point as desired. And discover (should I know this? Remember, I'm a newbie, I don't know anything) that Linux doesn't like the idea of installing on an NTFS-formatted partition. So I delete the entire partition and recreate it. The default size is 800MB. Note: a non-technical user would accept the 800MB, and be really stuck afterwards (*).
I would have expected a button that says "use all available space", or at least an indication as to how much space is available. But no such luck - I have to type something in. Being technically oriented (a non-techie would be stuck), I know what's going to happen: I enter some ridiculously big number, and sure enough, it's automatically trimmed down to the maximum size available. On we go to the next screen.
The display options are a bit confusing. It's not clear why I have to set resolution twice. In retrospect, I suppose one is to give the monitor's maximum capabilities, and one is to say what the display card should actually use. But this was not at all clear at the time.
I'm not the author of the above paragraphs, but I did want to say he is correct. Mandrake's partitioning procedure is the worst of the four distribution I've tried. In fact, I never got Mandrake to perform the partitions I wanted. I actually went and partitioned my hard drive using the Ubuntu installation and then came back to installing Mandrake.
Package Selection
Selecting packages - here I have to give Linux/Mandrake/Open-Source huge kudos. When I install a Windows system, the OS is only the first step. Then comes the huge slog: installing all of our standard applications. We're too small for the fancy admin tools that could automate this, so I would expect to lose 2-3 days swapping CDs.
While there will still be a lot of additional applications to install, it is still hugely motivating to realize that all of the standard stuff - including all office apps - will be installed simultaneously with the operating system! Wow! (*)
No need to install a boot-manager, since this machine uses BootMagic. Then the file-copying begins: 15 minutes to go, CD1, 8 minutes to go, CD2, one minute to go, CD3, one minute to go...one minute to go...one minute to go... I go have lunch, come back, and it's still one minute to go...
Turn off the machine restart the installation, select the minimum number of packages. Again, the installation hangs on the third CD.
A small hint for Mandrake: why try endlessly to read the unreadable? It might be nice to eventually give up and tell the user about the problem (*). It turns out that the 3rd CD was defective. So boot Windows, reburn the CD, back through the installation process, which I've pretty well got memorized by now, and this time the installation completes.
Booting for the first time
If you've been paying attention, you'll already know what happens next. When I tried to boot Linux, the system hangs with the message "preparing to load Linux". It turns out that there is some incompatibility with BootMagic (*).
There is good news and bad. The good news is that a bit of research on the Internet tells me that I can put the LILO boot loader on the Linux partition - thus keeping BootMagic as the main boot manager. I experiment for a while, but cannot figure out how to do this retroactively. So - you guessed it - I re-do the entire installation again, only this time I tell it to install LILO.
After this, Linux boots up. I notice only one red flag during the boot process - Linux was unable to initialize the network card. Otherwise it comes up just fine.
Once the system is booted, I find the network settings area pretty much where I expect it. Somehow, the network settings have been lost - as has the proxy setting. I enter all of these by hand, the network comes up, and I can get onto the Internet through the company firewall.
Initial experimentation
I've a bit of time to experiment - not really trying to use the system productively yet, but just getting a first impression. My initial comments:
1. I can't find any sort of file explorer (*). Konqueror will display a directory, but I can't find any way to have directories in one pane, and a file list in another. From the command-line, I can use the "dir" command - and my fingers somehow remember "ls -al" from student days. But this is pretty primitive - and "Midnight Commander" is no better. Perhaps there is some other application that does this, but I am unable to find it.
2. I try installing a new application (Opera - at least I'll have one program I'm familiar with). The different packaging options (deb, rpm, tar.gz) meaning nothing to me - and there are over a dozen different downloads available. I try "rpm, QT Shared", selecting the one that mentions Mandrake 9.2. Then - remembering from student days - I open a command-line window, type in "man rpm", and figure out how to install it. This goes swimmingly well, but I have the distinct feeling I was lucky.
How would a non-technie figure this out (*)? Why should there be a dozen different download files? Is there no equivalent to the self-installing packages under Windows?
3. In our company, files are stored on a central Win2k server. How am I going to get at them? I can't very well join the domain, after all. I look for Linux documentation in the programs list. There is only one entry - for KDE - no documentation for Mandrake, or for Linux in general (*). This is really weird!
A small point - the table of contents of the KDE documentation is in german, while the text is in english. These are the two languages I selected, but somehow all mixed up...
So a bit of research on Google: --linux "windows share"--, and I find out that I need to use the command "submount". This works out, but again - I can't imagine a non-technical user pulling it off.
Surely any user moving from Windows will want to access their old files from Linux? This ought to be easy - hand-holding all the way through, probably with some sort of Wizard (*).
4. Adding a network printer (Laserjet 4100) took a small bit of experimentation, but was basically very easy. I'm impressed with the number of drivers apparently built-in (*)!
5. Finally, I open up an OpenOffice program - the word processor. I'm amazed to see that it can read and write Word documents (*)! I wonder a bit about licensing and patents - but that's not my problem. Absolutely lovely that it works - if the implementation is good, I hope that this means a Linux machine will be able to share documents with a Windows machine.
Ok, that's it for installation and first impressions. I'll be gradually trying to use Linux for "productive" things over the next few weeks. And I think it's about time I bought myself a book.
Summary
The installation process was made unnecessarily painful by a couple of small points: the disk-partitioning, and the lack of an error message when a CD turned out to be damaged. On the other hand, the automatic hardware recognition worked pretty much flawlessly.
The automatic installation of all standard programs simultaneously with the operating system is a huge advantage over Windows, and should be emphasized!
The complete lack of documentation on Mandrake and Linux is weird. Possibly I'm looking in the wrong place, but surely there should be some sort of User's Guide right there next to the KDE documentation?
Lastly - it should be brain-dead easy to hook up to existing windows files, either on the local machine or across the network. But there's no hint how to do this - no support at all. The solution I found - while it worked - is entirely unsuited to your average, non-technical user.
With those criticisms out of the way, my overall impression is quite positive. The installation detected and configured all hardware except for the network interface correctly - and that was easy to fix. I installed a network printer without having to hunt down a driver. Everything works, and I'm looking forward to trying to actually do a bit of work with Linux in the next few days.
I'll make further entries in the next few days under various usability topics...
Addendum
Some months later I once again had time to get back to Linux. To give myself some motivation, I installed all of the newest Java development tools *only* under Linux. That way I *cannot* work on our newest project under Windows.
At first, everything went smoothly - I installed a few essential applications (Eclipse, Java, and the like). I developed under Linux part-time for several weeks. Then I needed some additional applications (such as MySQL Administrator) - and these applications refused to install. Here, I found a number of separate problems:
- The available rpm's are labelled Redhat and Suse. Does this matter? Will they work? I have no idea, but proceed in blind faith.
- Many applications have dependencies that are not installed. Surfing for these turns up many different versions, none of which are exactly what the applications request. Which one do I pick? Why weren't these packaged with the applications in the first place?
- I figure that most reliable place to install these missing dependencies from is the Mandrake package manager (which also offers several versions - I'll just take the highest version number and pray). I click "install" and it asks me to insert installation CD 4. Oops? There are only 3 installation CDs ?!
- Some searching later, I discover that CD4 does exist, if I join the Mandrake club.
- I pay to join, only to discover that I must use something called "BitTorrent" to download. This turns out to be a horror to configure with the company firewall, and downloading the CD-image is pathetically slow: as I write this, it has been 2 days (yes, days), and it's less than half finished!
- I can request an HTTP link from Mandrake (and I did), but they may take up to 5 days to provide it. That's why I pay a "club" membership, right?
- While waiting, I've downloaded and installed all of these applications under Windows, with no problems at all. For the moment, I'll have to work under Windows - maybe BitTorrent will finish downloading the CD over the weekend...
Move to SuSE
I gave up on BitTorrent, paid for membership, and asked for an HTTP-link. It took on the order of two weeks to get the link, and the download performance was still terrible.
I gave up and bought SuSE - this thread continues under SuSE installation...
Configuration problems
I was installing Mandrake 10 on an old PC (AMD K6) for learning purposes. Although the onboard sound chip was noted as compatible, it was not recognized or configured. I used the Linux.iso forums and did some web searching. Turns out I needed to run sndconfig (why - if the chip was supported, it should have been configured). Tried to run sndconfig. No luck, command not found, even when logged in as root. Search, search, search. Okay, I have to download and install sndconfig. Do it, run it, and finally have sound. Wow. Over an hour of work to get a "supported" device to work! I like Linux, and will keep learning, but this is not the way to get "Joe Sixpack" to adopt Linux. If you want to supplant Windows, you must program to that level. It's not "I can get it to work" it's "it just works."
Its funny how Joe sixpack throw Linux away as soon as something doesnt work. I have heard it several times. But if you have a hard time setting up hardware under Linux, Linux sucks. If you have a hard time setting up hardware under Windows you are probably doing something wrong. This seems to be a wide spread philosophy, and then you are probably better of sticking to windows I have been using Mandrake with ISA soundcard for a few years. During installation, hardware "postinstallation" you have the ability to select soundcard. If you click on the button you will be asked if you have an ISA soundcard. Answer 'yes' here, and the installation program will install the nessecary software(isapnp & sndconfig) and tell you to run it as soon as your system is up & running.
Corrupted disks
Hmm - difficult to sit down and observe myself as there's no-one else out here in the country that i could physically have with me so... my "first" experience.
i have two 'puters - i installed Mandrake Linux v9.2 on the lesser used of the two whilst maintaining an internet connection on the other for help/user groups etc. Though, in this case, all help was non-existent both from groups and from the incomprehensible instructions via email from Mandrake!
The first v9.2 was very problematic - the 3 install discs posted to me by an authorised Mandrake reseller were corrupted somehow, but i didn't know that at the time.
Install error messages such as,
"error installing msec-0.40-1mdk.i586 Continue anyway?"
"error installing ncursers-5.3-1.200302154.3mdk.i586 Continue anyway?"
"error installing rmt-0.4632-2mdk.i586 Continue anyway?"
kept appearing and a further 9 file installation errors on CD1 and CD2 had 7 more or these "Continue anyway?" errors.
3 more failed installations later, after deleting various partitions created, then reformatting the entire drive( thus wiping the Windoze one!!), and so on and so forth all resulted in ... no Linux OS.
It must be said from my experience that, if a file is needed or not, is integral or not to the OS or perhaps could be done without entirely, how would i know from this very unhelpful to a newbie error message?
Why ask me then to continue with the installation? i reallly have no knowledge if a file is needed or not at this newbie level. This particular "error message" assumes that i *have* knowledge as opposed to assuming i don't. It really *should* give the "right" information first time.
Post Script - the reseller eventually sent me 3 more install CD's - and the second lot of CD installation had no errors. Now i have a v10.0 box with official ISO's downloaded from Mandrake (from the Windo$e machine!!).
Reply: As a newbie,and probably as a semi-experienced too, it is hard to know whether a specific file is important or not. So my only advice is this: If the computer can't read from the installation cd, and the cd drive is in order, complain and get a replace cd!!!
==Information and instructions== (to be enventually moved elsewhere)
The installation instructions for Mandrake 9.2 (and pretty much 10.0, as not much changed since) are available at:
http://doc.mandrakelinux.com/MandrakeLinux/92/en/Discovery.html/discover.html
ISA PNP Sound Card Note: Mandrake 9.2 and 10.0 doesn't always detect ISA PNP Sound cards (I first noticed this with Creative Lab Awe64). Since it doesn't detect the card, it also doesn't install the necessary utilities to set the card up. Once Mandrake has been installed, reboot and install sndconfig, and isapnp. After these are installed, open a terminal, type "su" to become root, and run "sndconfig"
Q: What is the story with software RAID on drake 9.2. I have gone into expert install mode and set up two (identical) 17gig SCSI drives on the same bus. I chose "Linux RAID" as the type of drive in the custom formatting section of the install. I added both volumes to a Level 1 RAID (mirror) and then I am essentially stuck. I can't format the new (logical) RAID volume and the install proceeds to put its files on sda1 (the first drive) and just ignores the presence of the other half of the raid.
A: The newly created Raid will be available as another tab in the disks section of your partitioning program. Select it and assign the new array (/dev/md0) to a mount point.
Q: Is software RAID practical on drake 9.2?
A: No, however software raid is impractical not only on Mandrake. FIXME: evaluate on the subject, why softraid is Bad For You (tm)
Q: Can s/w RAID be achieved through the GUI installation tools?
A: Yes. You need to select the partition type as "RAID autodetect" on multiple partitions you want to be in the RAID. Then select first one and click "Add to RAID". This process is well documented in QuickStart guide.
Q: Can you point me to a simple cookbook set of directions for watching commercial DVDs on Mandrake 10.0 Official? I'm not particular which viewer; just that the directions are clear and comprehensive for a novice.
A: Simpliest way is to install plf version of mplayer. Using Easy URPMI at http://urpmi.org/easyurpmi/index.php add plf and contrib media to your distribution. Then simply (as root) do "urpmi mplayerplugin" to install all the needed software to play dvds. You can start mplayer from your Multimedia KDE menu. I hope this is clear enough :)
This isn't specific to Mandrake installation, but I can't think of where else to put this. Many games you can install with Mandrake, when you try to run them, do absolutely nothing. (This is especially true of the OpenGL games if your X server doesn't have the glx extension present.) I know it's a little bit of work, but I think it would help newbies figure out what was going on if you wrapped many of these games with a script that let you know what happened if they didn't start, and added a couple simple troubleshooting suggestions (set up glx, make sure your sound card is running, whatever).
